Interviews and talks from “Hans Blix’ Glasses”
Below you find the three interviews and talks made in conjunction with the exhibition.
Hussein Tai, b 1966, Iraq
Visual Artist living in Copenhagen
Educated from The College of Fine Arts, Baghdad, Iraq, 1992
http://www.bazart.dk/
Meeting 13-02-2008 in Copenhagen
transcript of parts of our conversation
Nis: …In this project the level of international politics is cross-sectioned with the experience of the war described by individuals, mainly Iraqis living in Denmark..
Hussein: As Iraqi i was happy when Saddam was removed. But today people from the whole region come to fight the Americans. There are positive things about the war and very negative things in my view. I hope for more security and stability in the coming years, but right now I am a pessimist. I come from Baghdad and my family lives there, that is what I know the best and hear most about. Baghdad is special because all religious groups live there side by side, and this is right now cause for conflict.
[......]
Nis: Since you are an artist as well, I am interested in hearing about how the situation is in Baghdad in regards to visual art, is it made at all? is the art academy operating?
Hussein: It’s in operation but not as before, they have the same educational system, but instability makes it hard or impossible to work. One positive thing is that back then you were very much told what to do. The Bath party controlled the educational sector, and the university under which the art academy rests. To get in you had to be a member of the Bath party. Bath was Saddam’s party, and if you were good in making portraits you were told to do portraits of the president (Saddam). It was your duty then, you couldn’t say no.
Nis: Back then it was only figurative painting?
Hussein: It was an academic system, the first years were mandatory assignments, the last year ones own project. But nothing abstract or modern. You mainly did what you were told – a classical school
Nis: Have you got a sense of what is going on today?
Hussein: I have seen some reports in television. There is more freedom but on the other side also bad things like in: Making paintings to be sold. That makes paintings very bad.
But there is also lack of professors and teachers, some have fled from Iraq, some are dead. The most important and strongest teachers are not at the academy right now.
[.......]
Nis: From where do you get your information in terms of staying up to date on the war and the situation in Iraq?
Hussein: I watch the Arabic channels; Al Jazeera, Al Arabia, and from friends in Baghdad, bad news mostly. You see places you know and remember now being ruined it’s depressing. Sometimes I stop seeing the news for that reason. Many cultural treasures and places of interest to artists and intellectuals are being destroyed even though the shouldn’t be a part of the conflict. Today there is by large not being produced any art and culture in Iraq. Cultural life is almost non existing.
Nis: Is there an Iraqi cultural life in Denmark, there are 25.000 Iraqis living here.
Hussein; Yes round about that figure, there are 10-12 visual artists, educated from the arts academy or arts high school (there are two art schools in Baghdad), but very few, if any, are living from their art. There is no community or union of Iraqi artists. Artists also work on their own mostly
[.......]
Hussein: Previously there were no problem between Sunni and Shia. You didn’t even think about which religion other people had, but in what was in common. Now that has changed, fundamentalism have sneaked in among other reasons because groups from outside have come in and radicalised the conflict. Both the Sunnis and the Shias have fundamentalist parts that has been strengthened during the conflict.
Nis: What do you think in the longer run, will the radical be the ones in power and setting the agenda of will people become weary of war?
Hussein: The politicians are splitting the country between religions because the parties follow the religious groupings. This is increasing the conflict. If they change and start working on basis of what is best for Iraq, not the religious or the ethnic, then there is hope for a better development.
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Interview with Zakia Al-muomen
Copenhagen 14-02-2008
Nis: Could you talk about what you did in Iraq when you lived there?
Zakia: At first i worked, then I got married, we had three children and I was a housewife. My husband was a Ph.D., highly educated, our economy was good. We had a fish farm back in the 1980´ties. Then came the Iran-Iraq war. War is everywhere a catastrophe that brings depression; socially, economically, emotionally. Back then it was not as hard as today, the war was not in the city and the everyday worked – not perfect, but we could live our lives. But we were personally hit and lost a son 19 years old in the war. It is now almost 30 years ago, but it still lies heavy on things. The world went black after that.
We couldn’t get away, and my husband couldn’t leave because of his political background. We were forced to help our other son to escape from Iraq, for him not also to end up in war. After 8 years of war it was a relief that it ended.
Just as our lives was starting to return to normal again Saddam started the invasion of Kuwait. This had big consequences on the people of Iraq and on us. Many were made orphanages, women became single parent which is a special problem because women in general are dependent on their husbands in Iraq. It became hard to get something to eat, there was a constant lack of supplies. People with the highest educations started leaving; doctors, scientists, artists – those who could contribute to society. They left because of the war but also because Saddam didn’t like them as they were harder to control.
Nis: So it was because of the invasion that the intellectuals started leaving and the climate changed?
Zakia: Yes Saddam controlled food and medicine. Saddam was getting richer and richer, but people poorer and the standards of living fell. The economic sanctions didn’t affect Saddam at all only the population. It was Saddam that should have been removed it was his fault that we lost our country. Before the first Golf War people mainly escaped for political reasons, after – it was also for social and economic reasons.
We decided to leave to give our children better conditions, schools were bad, the economy, we disagreed with Saddam’s politics. There were many inexplicable diseases after the chemical bombs. This was in 1993.
It was not easy to go to an unknown world, we lost almost everything. We travelled to Denmark because my son and daughter lived there. It was hard, another life and mentality. We had a large house, 2 cars and a high standard of living, and came to the asylum centre where we lived the whole family in a 2 room apartment for 1 1/2 years
Nis: I would like to hear about women’s role in society and how it has changed recently
Zakia: Before the whole population was repressed, both men and women. But the positive thing was that women could dress as they wanted. Now we hear from the media and from friends in Iraq that if a woman is walking down the street without a scarf she will be killed, murdered. This also happens within university. A man and a woman was killed because they sat on the same bench and talked together. Many had been forced to wear a scarf.
The daughter in law: This reminds me of a story that my father told: He was studying in the university before he fled in 1978. As he told it, it was wonderful to go to university, women wore the latest fashion and miniskirts. Three years ago he went back to visit his mother and friends. He also visited the university and was shocked to learn that most women wore scarf’s. Only very few didn’t, but were covered in some other way. He was expecting a fashion show (laughter)
Nis: Culturally its a step backwards?
Daughter in law: Yes its a big step backwards also in relation to women’s rights. The schools used to be mixed, men and women. Now they have been forced to separate people. This has happened mainly after 2003 and for one reason because Iran has interfered in the country.
Nis: Can women take part in public debates?
Zakia: Free speech for women is not really happening. Those who have the most power are Islamic parties that are against women’s freedom and free speech. Some Islamic parties interpret Islam in a way that women are inferior to men, this is a problematic reading.
Women’s conditions now in Iraq is a catastrophe. Many women live below the poverty line because they don’t have a husband. It is difficult getting a job. Many women in Iraq are both mum and dad and because the economy is bad they cannot make enough money to buy the most basic things that a child needs like food, diapers…
Society had started looking at women in a different way, because of people who use religion as an excuse to take us 100 years back, now women have to stay at home wear a scarf etc
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Interview with Kufani at The Danish National Gallery, 16th of February 2008
M. Mahdi Alturaihi (Kufani)
Visual artist, calligrapher, photographer
Born in alkufa Iraq, 1970.
Lives in Sakskøbing, Denmark
Nis; Can you tell about the media situation in Iraq and the Middle East?
Kufani: If something happens in Iraq I go to Al Jazeera. They have the news instantly. On other Arabic channels the news are slower, maybe without translation, with graphical problems og poor images. Al Jazeera has also opened a channel in English. There are three major television channels: Al Jazeera from Qatar, Al Arabia from Saudi Arabia and a Lebanese channel. In Lebanon they have had a more free and open society so artists and writers went there, this again affects the news and the general cultural climate there. Al Arabia and other stations are speaking against Shia and are thereby contributing to a polarization and increased conflict between Sunni and Shia. This creates big problems for people in Iraq. It is very negative.
There is by the way also an American run station in Arabic with Iraqi dialect; Al-Hurra “The Free One” (there is also a version covering the whole Middle East). This station of course supports USA’s policy in Iraq and democratization in the Middle East. It broadcasts 24 hour a day and was started 3-4 years ago.
Local media and news are very much about daily problems like getting gas, electricity, water and about the rise in prices, nothing about culture and art
A lot of things are not working in Iraq, but the media are working 100%. If something is wrong everybody goes to watch television. If something needs to change then the media needs to change too.
[.....]
Kufani: Which Arabic or Danish media in Arabic tells about what Danes or Europeans think without mediation? for example about the Mohammed cartoons right now? People go to media in the language they understand the best, that could be Arabic media like Al Jazeera, Al Arabia or Internet media. But they only get the story seen through a lot of indirect sources, not directly, and most likely not seen from a Danish perspective or in a Danish context.
[.....]
Kufani: Previously many Arabic speaking foreigners used www.dr.dk, where you could get sound and articles in Arabic. But about three years ago this was cancelled (the languages were as I recall; Arabic, Somali, Farsi and other languages). Here you could get an image of what happened in Denmark today. This exchange is now missing, and this is very important because a lot of people don’t understand Danish well enough to read the news.
[.....]
Nis: How did the media operate in Iraq in the beginning of the war?
Kufani: In the beginning the media disappeared, and nobody knew what was going on, also because the power went away. But people find other possibilities like running radio and TV of car batteries. For me as an Iraqi living in Denmark Al Jazeera was my main source of information. They broadcasted directly from Baghdad during the time. Back then there were few independent Arabic newspages on the internet. USA made a propaganda TV station in Arabic in Iraq and other places, with messages on not to fight, surrender without fighting, this channel stopped approximately a month after the invasion.
[...]
Kufani: Today we need international media, dealing with Arabic culture. The focus of news from the Middle East has almost solemnly been on conflict and war, but Arabic culture has interest and relevance for many other people than Arabs.